That game didn’t have to end up being gross… but it was gross for the Seattle Kraken, who fell behind early, rallied back, and then collapsed into Thanksgiving with a 5-2 loss to the Anaheim Ducks on home ice.
In a stretch of hockey where the Kraken should really be winning every game and taking every available point, Seattle split its home-and-home series with the Ducks, leaving a sour taste for the boisterous pre-holiday crowd at Climate Pledge Arena.
While Seattle remains very much in the playoff hunt, Thanksgiving is traditionally a benchmark for predicting which teams will make the postseason. The Kraken are barely on the outside looking in. It’s worth noting that they were barely inside the playoff bubble at this time last season—and ended up missing the postseason by a wide margin.
Here are Three Takeaways from an uninspiring 5-2 Kraken loss to the Ducks.
Takeaway #1: We want leftovers, not turnovers
By my count, three of Anaheim’s five goals came directly off Kraken turnovers in their own zone.
Frank Vatrano’s ice-breaking goal at 8:23 of the first period happened after Chandler Stephenson picked up a loose puck along the wall and tried to shovel a backhand breakout pass to Jamie Oleksiak, who was unusually high in the zone. But the pass went behind Oleksiak and right onto the stick of Troy Terry. Terry’s initial shot got broken up by Brandon Montour but rolled to Vatrano, who scored with a spin-o-rama.
Ducks score first. Frank Vatrano with his second in as many games against the #SeaKraken, spinning and sliding it past Daccord’s skate. Started with a Stephenson pizza. 🍕
— Sound Of Hockey (@sound_hockey) November 28, 2024
1-0 pic.twitter.com/RXmODdVr7r
The next hot pizza pie delivery was a team effort between Brandon Tanev and Adam Larsson and came at a brutal time—just one minute after the Kraken had battled back to erase a 2-0 deficit.
Tanev tried a no-look breakout pass to Yanni Gourde but found Pavel Mintyukov instead. Larsson had a chance to bail out Tanev but took too long to make a decision with the puck and handed it to Trevor Zegras below the goal line. In a flash, Zegras found Alex Killorn, and the puck was in Seattle’s net at 10:02 of the second period.
D’oh! Alex Killorn responds. Sloppy shift by the #SeaKraken. Zegras gets the steal, Killorn gets the goal.
— Sound Of Hockey (@sound_hockey) November 28, 2024
3-2 Ducks. pic.twitter.com/EIUwSzFViS
That goal made it 3-2 and became the eventual game winner.
The real backbreaker came when Jared McCann grabbed a rebound on the penalty kill and blindly tried to throw it out of the zone. Mintyukov knocked it down, found Cutter Gauthier, and Gauthier restored the two-goal lead with 37 seconds left in the second period, an absolutely devastating time to concede a goal.
Oof. #SeaKraken give up a power-play goal at an inopportune moment in the game, with 38 seconds left in the 2nd.
— Sound Of Hockey (@sound_hockey) November 28, 2024
Jared McCann had a chance to clear but didn’t get it out. Cutter Gauthier got the goal.
4-2 Ducks heading to the 3rd period. 😬 pic.twitter.com/fIg1p0IxFQ
McCann was trying to clear the puck quickly and was under duress deep in Seattle’s end, but if he had just gotten his head up first, that puck would have been out of harm’s way.
Heck, even Zegras’ goal, which made it 5-2, stemmed from a Matty Beniers turnover although that one at least happened in the offensive zone, so Seattle should have had time to recover.
Regardless, it is safe to say that turnovers cost the Kraken this game.
“Yeah, I think that says it all,” Oliver Bjorkstrand said when I asked him about the three goals coming off D-zone blunders. “We’ve just got to bear down, make the right plays, get it out. I can’t go through the plays and what the mistakes were, but if we turn it over, just find a way to get over the blue or make a better play depending on the situation.”
When I asked Bylsma why he thought Seattle was turning the puck over like that, he said, “[Anaheim] certainly played a little harder [than last game]. I thought they—especially early on in the game—they had their D being more aggressive down the wall. But the execution points that you’re talking about were solely on us.”
Takeaway #2: Not Joey’s night
One luxury Kraken fans have enjoyed this season is watching Joey Daccord win the goaltending battle in nearly every game he’s played. In this one, however, John Gibson outshone Daccord, stopping 42 Kraken shots and posting 2.67 goals saved above expected. Gibson was stellar and remains undefeated in regulation this season, 4-0-1 through five starts.
For Daccord, his .848 save percentage in this game was his lowest of the season, and the five goals against marked the first time he allowed more than four.
I’ve long maintained that five players need to make a mistake before the puck even gets to the goalie, and as noted in Takeaway #1, the mistakes were plentiful. But Daccord has had a knack for bailing out his teammates after their most egregious errors this season, and he didn’t do that as often in this game.
Four of Anaheim’s five goals came off uncomfortable situations for Daccord, from Vatrano’s screened spin-around shot to Killorn’s quick-strike one-timer to Gauthier’s power-play screen to Zegras’ midair swipe.
The lone questionable goal was Brett Leason’s, which came on a 1-on-1 rush against Josh Mahura at 12:43 of the first. It seemed like a nothing play, but the puck launched off Leason’s stick and squeezed under Daccord’s arm. There was something weird about the shot, though. From above, it looked like Leason was going glove side, but the puck somehow went the other way. Either Leason has an extremely deceptive shot, or it ramped off Mahura’s stick.
Uh oh. 2-0 Ducks.
— Sound Of Hockey (@sound_hockey) November 28, 2024
A rare apparent misplay by Daccord, although that was a nasty shot by Brett Leason, and it may have caught Mahura’s stick. #FlyTogether #SeaKraken pic.twitter.com/Ihy7n4LDIg
Regardless, this is a game Daccord—who has been so dominant this season—will want to put behind him.
Seattle has been pushing Joey really hard, so it’s time to give him a game off, which he will surely get in one of the upcoming two against San Jose.
Takeaway #3: The Tolvanen / Wright / Bjorkstrand line was good
I was tempted to write about Seattle’s power play for Takeaway #3—it went 0-for-5 in this game and is now 0 for its last 20—but I can’t send you into arguably the best holiday of the year on all negative Takeaways. Instead, let’s highlight the strong performance of the Eeli Tolvanen/Shane Wright/Oliver Bjorkstrand line.
Remember, two of those three players have been publicly in Bylsma’s doghouse this season, with both Wright and Bjorkstrand receiving healthy scratches. But this game was one of the trio’s better outings.
Tolvanen’s goal came during a line change, so it was actually assisted by Gourde and Tanev, but he also helped create Bjorkstrand’s goal with hard forechecking on Olen Zellweger. Zellweger coughed up the puck to Wright, who found Bjorkstrand in the slot on a textbook example of how to pressure a defender into a mistake.
When I asked Tolvanen about the challenges this line has faced this season, he said, “It’s tough to say. I feel like [we’ve had] sloppy play. The confidence probably hasn’t been the highest, and if you don’t have confidence, it’s hard to play the game. I think we just have to build the confidence on the little things, and take pride in the forecheck and be the line that we can be.”
Darren Brown
Darren Brown is the Chief Content Officer at soundofhockey.com and the host of the Sound Of Hockey Podcast. He is a member of the PHWA and is also usually SOH’s Twitter intern (but please pretend you don’t know that). Follow him @DarrenFunBrown and @sound_hockey or email darren@soundofhockey.com.
Beniers has 10 points in 23 games. That is 36 points over an 82 game season. Someone tell me again why that production is worth >$7m AAV?
At least he’s young enough that the contract can be bought out at the 1/3 rate up to the beginning of the 28/29 season 🤷🏼♀️(which I checked as soon this contract was signed.
I’m lost when it comes to what his identity is as a player. It’s not shaking out to be top-of-the-leaderboard scoring machine. What more nuanced role can he take to justify the $$?
Something else that occurred playing the Ducks and soon the Sharks and their talented young Fs. I think the Kraken have the least talented number 1 forward in the entire league. If you think of the most talented F on each NHL roster, the one they turn to when a goal is needed, they are more talented and exciting to watch than the Kraken’s best (McCann?). I think it is this lack of a top-end F talent that ultimately defines the Kraken.
Does it not make sense, if there is no quick Dunn-returns bump, to sell off the vets and tank this year and go for Hagens, Misa, or Martone?
I believe much of the responsibility lies with the coaching on this one. This game appeared more like a pick up game at the Y. Seemed very undisciplined from both teams, but unfortunately that played to the Ducks’ strengths. Let’s get back to it boys.
I think most of the fault is on the GM, he’s has not built a team that can compete when the game gets physical. The end goal is a playoff run and our roster is not capable of making a deep run we are too weak and small.
Daccord played a very Grubauer game and we got beaten down. They were targeting Evans all night long and we just watched it happen. I don’t even want to talk about the Kartye thing, just an embarrassment.
Maybe we need to bounce more pucks off of Burky he seriously can’t shoot, waiting way too long to release his shot.
Totally embarrassed on home ice. I thought Joey getting run over would be the worst but the 2 on 1 against Tye while he was down on the ice was the topper. Not surprising when their captain is a goon. Ducks wanted to play rough and we looked like a bunch of whipped pigs by the end of the night. Our PP better get their act together too as it’s looking worse than the previous staff’s (and that was horrible as we all remember). Combined all that with our inability to handle teams with aggressive forechecking and this team has A LOT of things to fix. I think we have capable players but oh man this season is slipping away…
On a positive note Happy Thanksgiving to the SOH crew! You guys do great work and I’m wishing you all a joyous holiday!
I was thinking six points from these two home-and-home match-ups would be reasonable, but even if they win both against the Sharks, the way they lost this one does not give me a lot of hope looking ahead to next months schedule.
This game reminded me of the Sharks blowout(?) loss to the Sharks around this time last year.
Not sure which “Sharks” was supposed to be “Kraken” but it was actually also the day before Thanksgiving last season the Kraken crushed San Jose 7-1. I remember that being an especially humility loss for that team.
The Sharks game from last season it reminded me of was the final one before the All-Star break. Seattle dropped that one 2-0 and looked like they were already headed for the beach. The Kraken outchanced them and outshot them in that one – just like last night – but played sloppy… just like last night.
When asked after that game if the players should be thinking about the game over the break, Hakstol was adamant, ‘absolutely not, it’s just one hockey game, enjoy the break’. I don’t think he needed to send ’em off with a “kick in the ass”, but I don’t think a “pat on the back” was the right choice either. That right there was where he started to lose me. That was an important game. A win there would have put them in a tie for a playoff spot over the break. Instead, they spent their vacation on the outside looking in thanks to a demoralizing loss with an east coast road trip to return to… of which they dropped the first two.
I’m really hoping for a solid bounce-back these next two games. It’s just a “vibe”, but it seemed to me like last season they didn’t feel there were any “important” games. These next two are important and they need to get up for them.
Go Kraken!!!
Thank you for correcting my memory Daryl. You are right, it was the all-star break game. But still had that same feel to me.
This new coaching staff has managed to take last year’s lousy power play and somehow make it even worse. And increasingly worse and worse. The Ducks came into these 2 games with the worst PK in the entire NHL, and the Kraken go 0 for 10.
McCann also had a rare off night. Very tentative, lots of fumbles and turnovers. Stephenson had a few soft/lazy plays (less surprising), although mixed with some good shifts and one awesome power move. In a way, nice to see the Wright line being the bright spot.
It’s time to stop writing about playoff odds. It’s just depressing. This is not a playoff team, it’s just not happening. We just have to take it one game at a time and hope (against hope?) for signs of improvement in our young centers of the future.
Yes I’m wondering if Jessica was the right choice, I completely understand why they brought her up but if it doesn’t work out it could be a very bad situation. Nobody wants to be the first NHL team to fire a female coach…. Maybe setting her up as the head coach on the farm for a little more growth would have been the better option. I know the Firebirds PP that she was in charge of wasn’t that good, talk was that her system was too advanced for the AHL and would translate better in the NHL. She’s has too get the PP clicking and quickly.
Campbell is the skating coach. Bob Woods handles the power play, I believe.
On a different note, it looks like Ryan Winterton is getting another call-up. At least at the AHL level, we know that he can score. He is also plenty tough. If he is able to stick this time, it may mean that we have seen the end of a very brief return for Daniel Sprong.
My understanding is that Campbell is running the PP and woods is running the PK? Campbell is definitely running the “skating” but that a specialty situation and not a “coach on the bench roll”. I’d be interested to hear what the rolls are if im not correct.
It’s a fine line between maintaining your composure and letting yourself get bullied. The Kraken missed that mark last night. Watching first Daccord get flagrantly knocked to the ice and the Kartye get pummeled while lying on the ice, and no one responding was really depressing. Where is John Hayden when you need him.
I was thinking the same thing. I don’t care who has to get sent down; John Hayden needs to be brought up. Toughness has always been an issue with the team, and they need somebody other than Shane Wright, Will Borgen, and Tye Kartye on the ice looking after their teammates. Kudos to Eeli Tolvannen for at least trying to fight his way into the mix, and good on Wright for being willing to scrap with vets even though he is supposed to be a rookie scoring forward.
Beyond just the toughness question, why shouldn’t teams commit flagrant fouls against them when their power play is useless? The personnel that they have are not so bad that they should be looking so utterly feckless. Woods and Campbell have to make fundamental changes to what they are trying to do, because there are not going to be any superstar scorers who come available in the next few years. All the team can do on the personnel front is hope that Sale and Catton really turn out to be all that.
As for the penalty kill… okay, I am sure that Coach knows his players better than I do, but I can’t help wondering why he thinks that Stephenson is better on PK2 than Beniers would be. For all the criticism out there of Beniers for his lack of finish, nobody doubts that he is phenominal in his own zone. Stephenson is absolutely better than Beniers is at winning face-offs, which is great for defensive zone draws on the kill, but is he so much better that it is worth it to forego Matty’s defense?
Thi
Nailed the takeaways, Darren. Overall, Daccord’s first period was a grade A Grubauer impression — some really nice and clutch high danger saves, followed by a total stinker. It was almost identical to the Rangers’ 2nd goal recently. Let’s hope Joey rebounds this weekend, they really need him to be amazing to have any shot at the playoffs, which is frankly looking like a long-shot at this point. There just isn’t enough talent on this team.
Much has been written recently by SOH contributors (or posters) about the fundamental shortcomings of the Kraken’s forward group – the team’s lack of scoring, shot-taking, fore-checking, intensity, physicality etc. etc. etc. Last night’s game was a perfect microcosm of what is now happening on a regular basis, and playing Anaheim just accentuates the point. The forward group was outclassed, out-worked, and rag-dolled.
We need bigger, better, more physical forwards to forecheck and cycle the puck more effectively. While Tanev’s and Gourde’s Tasmanian devil-like efforts are admirable, it’s unrealistic to expect two diminutive players to carry this load alone for an entire season, and players like Tolvanen and Bjorkstrand are ill-inclined to fill this role (last night’s great play by Tolvanen notwithstanding). We were hoping that Matty Beniers would bounce back from his alleged “sophomore slump”. The unfolding reality is maybe he’s just a try-hard, 40-point 3rd line center. This was supposed to Shane Wright’s breakout season – but to flourish, good young centers need to be matched with a legit goal scorer (apparently, we have none). We needed Andre Burakovsky to be the best (Colorado) version of himself, but that version was probably just a function of him playing on a better team. And the incessant line juggling masks the reality that this is simply an under-talented and deficient forward group. Reminds me of the old football adage that says “If you have two quarterbacks, you have no quarterbacks.”
Until now unspoken reality (in my mind) is that this Kraken team has no shot of making the playoffs. I recently read an article in The Athletic (link below). Read the “Path to contention” section for Kraken. It classifies them as “rebuilding” and opines that contending in the future is contingent on having significant “star power” i.e. a number of players rated in the top 3 of the Athletic’s 5 tiers. They project the Kraken to have only two such players (Catton and Beniers). I think this speaks to the point that while the team has a lot of solid prospects, none of them are expected to be top-line players.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5815613/2024/10/10/nhl-contention-cycle-player-tiers/
Taking all this in, my conclusion is the Kraken need to blow this team up and start over from scratch.
GMRF was given a nearly impossible task when constructing this team. He was charged with threading the needle between being immediately competitive (the Las Vegas curse) and building for the future. The result is we have an undertalented roster, bloated payroll and a farm system that seems (at best) only capable of maintaining the status quo.
The current roster has probably four players (IMHO) who could fetch a handsome return: Brandon Montour, Vince Dunn, Jared McCann and Joey Daccord, and a few players decent enough to garner high draft picks: Adam Larsson, Jamie Oleksiak and (potentially) Tanev and Gourde. The priority should trading for top-level, NHL-ready prospects from the AHL (or possibly CHL). By top-level I mean players clearly a cut above anyone currently on the Coachella Valley roster. The four players above should be able to garner 4-6 of these type prospects. If such prospects aren’t available, then the focus would turn to acquiring multiple (6 or more) 1st round draft picks (or some combination of both).
As a fan who (literally) waited 50+ years to see Seattle finally get an NHL team, it’s painful to suggest the reality above. The Athletic describes the Kraken’s current situation as “precarious” and their future as “murky”. This cycle needs to be broken, and my suggestions above could do that, but would most certainly require fans to “embrace the suck” for at least two years. The good news that the “embrace the suck” model can work. If you want an (admittedly early) example, just take a look at the team that kicked our ass last night.
Come down off the ledge, Totem, it’s gonna be okay.
The first thing I would say is, don’t listen to the Athletic. I read it all the time, but I also don’t take much they say about the Kraken seriously. With the exception of Drance, nobody on there knows anything about Seattle.
The second thing I would say is… it’s only been three seasons. That team that “kicked our ass” has been “rebuilding” for longer than that along with that train wreck Seattle crushed 8-2 at the Bell Center… and there’s still no assurances either of those teams is going anywhere. I also don’t think “tanking” is as straightforward as most fans think. Elliotte Friedman has talked about this quite a bit lately, but the most astute take on this I think I’ve ever heard actually came from RJ or Dylan (I mix them up) on the Emerald City Hockey’s post-game following last night’s loss. It’s near the very end of the pod (51:30) and he really lays out the actual complications of going that route, especially for this team.
The third thing I would say is, folks really don’t know what we have. Our lack of “star power” is absolutely the case right now, but Beniers just turned 22 this month. Wright, Catton, Rehkopf, Firkus and Sale are all 20 or under. None of these players is going to be a Matthews or McDavid or MacKinnon – who have one Cup in combined 30+ seasons – but you certainly could have an Aho or a Point in there. Speaking of the Athletic, I don’t know if you caught Corey Pronman’s “NHL prospects I was wrong about” article. One of his six “mistakes” starts, “I was stunned when Seattle took Ryker Evans No. 35 in 2021.” Beniers and Wright were obvious picks, but additionally, it seems to me Seattle has done well evaluating prospect talent overall. Just look at Joey Daccord. I think I saw about a half-a-dozen different goalies in the mocks, and not one that I recall had Joey… but three seasons later, I think he’s a legit NHL No.1.
I’m gonna hang in there for now. I think they’re on a path to get better without having to get worse.
I don’t need to be talked off the ledge.
About star power – your examples above are correct, albeit in a cherry-picked, confirmation bias sort of way. Not going to bother cataloguing a list, but pretty sure you’d agree that every Stanley Cup finalist had 3-4 “star power” players without which their teams would not have made it to the finals.
With respect not knowing what we have, any prospect turning into the next Braden Point or Sebastion Aho would be a huge victory, and IMO they would classify as a star-power, Tier 1-2 type of player. Four or five of those types and you’d have the core of a playoff-contending team. But it would be fanciful to count on that. I’ve reviewed multiple sources (not just the Athletic) and most rank our farm system in the 8-12 range. A solid but not spectacular farm system with no Tier 1 or Tier 2 type prospects. Blowing up the team (see below) would have to result in the acquisition of several high-upside prospects. If our own prospects pan out great – then we’d REALLY have something – a roster loaded with young, improving, exciting (and cheap) players that would eventually be a perennial playoff team.
It’s okay to be a little patient and wait for this team to improve – but only to a point. Vince Dunn will be back soon, and the team SHOULD perform better from there, so a (limited amount) of patience is called for. To make the playoffs the Kraken need to capture at least 60% of available points going forward. The 3–4 week period after Dunn returns is key. If the Kraken are performing at the 60% level, then patience is justified, we ride it out with our current roster and take our chances. Even if we miss the playoffs at least we’ll know the team as currently constructed can contend. But if (as I fear) they continue their current 50% muddle along pace, a “blow up” is called for and frankly necessary. I would characterize the Kraken’s performance so far as desultory and uninspiring. If this continues the Kraken are at risk of losing its fan base. If we don’t see improvement soon major changes will be needed.
I think you and I actually agree on a lot of things. I think the next month is very important and will likely inform a lot of decisions going forward.
One thing I just don’t understand. At this point, continuing on like this – which I believe is an improvement over the team that finished last season – is a bigger risk of losing the fan base than “blowing it up”?
As I mentioned elsewhere, the Ducks have been bottom three in the West for six straight seasons. That’s blowing it up. Do you honestly think a fledgling fan base is going to stick around for that… and it’s not like the Ducks are “about to break through”. They’re trying to.unload the guy from the cover of the video game.
Last season the Kraken tanked. They lost their best player, traded away their No.1 TOI forward and brought up teenagers… and could only manage No.8 overall. That team down the stretch absolutely sucked… and still picked eighth. Eighth in this next draft is not worth strangling all the advances they’ve made building the fan base this season through the new KHN arrangement.
Taking a risk on building on what they’ve got and what’s to come seems a lot more prudent than the cost of trying to land one of the five or six maybes in the next draft.
I hope you can enjoy this season… and many more to come.
Thanks for your reply. I will try and take a step back and enjoy the season.
After today, I feel myself shuffling a bit towards that precipice.
TFL, you have essentially agreed with my posts at the top of the thread and so I agree with your overall sentiment. I think we can agree the Kraken’s no. 1 goalie is good enough and so are its D, except they are trending older. The only issue there is that Borgen, given his UFA status, has to get traded. Looking around the league, just about every playoff team wants a rugged, 3RD who can be a 2RD. He can be replaced this season by Fleury and later by Ottavainen.
The real issue, which I mentioned above and you have also, is “the most talented F on each NHL roster, the one they turn to when a goal is needed, they are more talented and exciting to watch than the Kraken’s best.” Francis has had a No. 2 pick and a No. 4 pick and neither are top talent. I recall hoping the Coyotes would do what they always do and go off reservation with their draft picks, which meant passing on Cooley. Unfortunately….
That is why I suggested trying to move to the top of the upcoming draft, “Does it not make sense, if there is no quick Dunn-returns bump, to sell off the vets and tank this year and go for Hagens, Misa, or Martone?” No guarantee with the lottery but something has to be attempted. One just has to watch Celebrini, Eklund, and Smith in their last game to know what drafting high can mean to roster building.
So I suggest a milder form of what you are proposing. Take three certain actions before March 7 by trading the soon-to-be UFAs and give some of the CV prospects NHL cycles. There is some hope with Sale, Firkus, and Nyman, let’s if they can show something offensively soon. Winterton seems to be the classic case of development is non-linear, so hopefully this time up he breaks through, and others soon follow. Not stars but NHLers.
Not sure which four you are advocating trading (Montour, Dunn, McCann, Daccord) or (Larsson, Oleksiak, Tanev, Gourde)? The former would decimate the team, so I assume you mean the latter. Tanev and Gourde for sure. The difficulty with the first two is who is ready to replace them
now? It seems we have some middling D prospects but then again, everyone thought that about Evans, so no way to know.
There might be other F vets to trade but not sure they have much value on the market. So a tank this year to get one of top three Fs, bring Catton onto the roster next season (he is not AHL eligible even then), bring up the best of the CV F prospects, and see what we have. It is likely to be another suck season and another high draft pick. The other (unspoken) truth is that to make this all work, they need a maestro in charge and either the summer of 2025 or 2026 there needs to be a change at the top, after they have harvested all these draft picks and are ready to compete.
Well, they’ve just pissed away another game to a bottom feeder, which fortuitously provides me an opportunity to respond (geez Grubauer is just awful – that last goal – a snap shot from 60+ feet – should be a career ender for him).
We’re in agreement about the Kraken forward group. Even Jared McCann – their best forward – is really just an opportunistic sniper who takes advantage of odd-man rushes and breakaways – a specialist. And that’s the problem with the Kraken – they don’t have a single legit top-line forward, and not a single player who plays a well-balanced, all-around game. They’re just a bunch of under-sized, not-very-athletic specialists – niche players with way more weaknesses than strengths.
I like the idea of bringing up Sale, Firkus and Nyman – we need to get some idea as to whether they belong in the NHL, and we’ve got nothing to lose by checking them out.
In terms of trading players – I was referring to the top group (Dunn, McCann et al), i.e. decimating the team. As they say – go big or go home. 🙂
In reality some or all of the top four above should only be traded if they can acquire “ready-made” prospects that can contribute next year and where there is consensus that such prospects are a cut above anyone currently playing at Coachella Valley – otherwise why bother? If that can’t be achieved, then trading a player(s) to move up in the draft would make sense – ideally for a college forward who can contribute immediately, and also to avoid the rosterbation necessitated by virtue of the asinine CHL-NHL transfer agreement. Best case, a Macklin Celebrini- type player who would create excitement among the fan base (we’ve got none of that now). The problem of course is the draft lottery, which is why I would prefer my approach above.
About Gourde and Tanev – they’re two players on this team I genuinely admire and respect as they play at 110% and are not the slightest bit hesitant to take on bigger players. Unfortunately, Tolvanen and Bjorkstrand are probably untradeable (see paragraph #2 above) and since we’re likely to finish last in the Pacific Division regardless so we might as well get something for Gourde and Tanev before they hit free agency.
Yeah, I think we’re mostly in agreement – the have to do something or this team’s prospects will continue to decline.
Rather than tanking – which isn’t realistic – would you consider trading a protected first and Ryker Evans for David Jiricek?
The Athletic reported a team source indicated Waddell would consider a first and a depth defenseman. That would basically be getting a No.6 overall with two seasons of development already in place. It could also make it possible to move Borgen who I think could easily land a second, even as a rental.
“Rather than tanking – which isn’t realistic.” Huh? It is very realistic, if you factor in that the team may take 1 of 2 from SJ but if they lose them both, they are tied with SJ on points. Then the brutal schedule starts. The only unknown is the Dunn effect.
All of the standings laggards are starting to look better. Utah, Sabres, Sens, Blue Jackets, Wings, Flyers, Hawks,, Sharks, and Ducks have young talent that is perhaps finally starting to gel. Blues have a new coach. The Preds and Isles will figure it out sooner or later.
The only teams that are likely to remain terrible the whole season are the Pens and Habs. I see no reason that the Kraken, after trading Gourde, Tanev, and Borgen, cannot compete with those two franchises for a top 3 pick in 2025.
“trading a protected first and Ryker Evans for David Jiricek?” I would not trade Evans standalone for Jiricek. Evans looks like an established top 4 NHL D. Jiricek can’t stick in the NHL yet. I think the better trade is Jiricek for Larsson, plus maybe a 2R or 3R pick.
I don’t think this team is nearly as bad as you think. The realistic part has to do with what actually is likely to happen. It should be evident that until they are definitely eliminated from playoff possibility they are not trading Gourde and probably not Tanev. Goaltending is dicey, but their’s is now probably too good to be a bottom three team. The idea that only the Pens and Habs are likely to remain terrible seems too optimistic to me.
Larsson isn’t going anywhere. He likes it here, they like him, he has a full no trade. I don’t understand why people even bring up his name. I think Evans can play top four, but I would say second pair on is a better assessment. Since you’re suggesting “tanking” for the future, the upside on Jiricek as a big, right-shot, scoring defenseman seems a lot higher than Evans. Standing pat for the “established” mid guy seems inconsistent.
“I don’t think this team is nearly as bad as you think.” After that shellacking just now, would you like to revise your opinion?
I think they just played a game consistent with a team building towards something. Two goals for Wright – both on the power play- and Stephenson looked good. Plenty of positives.
My opinion of Grubauer is well established… he sucks. That’s the story of this game. You don’t tear the team down because your backup goalie sucks… you get rid of him. I replied elsewhere, you and I agree on that.
“I don’t think this team is nearly as bad as you think.” After losing 4 of 5 to the Calif. teams, I’ll ask again if you would like to revise your opinion?
I’d separate out the Kings…
but losing three of four to the Ducks and Sharks… maybe this team is as bad as you think.
Even if you write off the Grubauer game and consider the “hodgepodge” lineup tonight, they’ve still look awful all week. Sloppy. Lazy. Disengaged.
If you think they should be tanking, this has been a nice preview.
I said I wouldn’t even start to worry until 20 games, and game 20 was the end of a solid homestand… so I wasn’t worried.
I said I wouldn’t panic until the end of November… well, it’s time to panic.
If next month looks like the end of this month – and the schedule says it very much may – then the tanking has already begun. Gourde, Tanev, Tolvanen and Borgen are all pieces I think would draw interest.
Trading away all your best players and “embracing the suck” is what the Sabers and Senators have been doing repeatedly for decades, and all they have accomplished is to watch the players they gave up go on to great careers elsewhere. Draft position just isn’t worth giving up years of a decent on-ice product. It will fail more often than it will work, and even when it works it’s only worth a player or two who will likely end up being moved because the team around them is too bad to compete, especially when you have to fill in the other positions with over-priced free agents. It is time for the conventional wisdom in the NHL for building a contender to change. Teams get better by having a winning culture and by being a place where players want to play. That logic holds true in every other major sport.
…and the Ducks have been bottom three in the Western Conference the past six seasons in a row – including a worst in the league season – but someday…
Right, that’s six whole years of tanking, and who knows whether any of it will ever pay off. That has already taken the first early draft picks they got into their primes. Clubs that do that run the risk of becoming de facto farm clubs for good teams, and, if you listen to Rangers, Bruins, and Maple Leafs fans, that is exactly what they expect the lesser franchises in the league to be for them whenever the trade deadline comes around. The old experts say tanking is how getting competitive is done, but it’s a trap.